Program
"Get The Data"
- An interview with Robert Spitzer, vice-president, engineering,
Boeing Commercial Airplane Group at MAKS'97.
-
- Q. What is the current state of joint
work with Tupolev on supersonic studies?
-
- We are working with Tupolev on the Tu-144LL flying laboratory and getting
good results. We had some discussions this spring, in April, about some
further aircraft studies in the area of supersonic transports. We've started
to work on some similar projects and are currently conducting studies on
those projects. However, in terms of the major future, we are not prepared
to say yet that supersonic transports will be economically viable - we
are in the early stages of work. We will do our homework to
- ensure a good environment, good airplane, and good economics. So, we
are still exploring those areas, and will continue discussions with professor
Pukhov and his team.
-
- Q. Professor Pukhov, chief designer
for the Tu-144LL with Tupolev, told me that Tupolev is advising Boeing
on some design features of the projected Next-Generation Supersonic Transport,
the SST-2. Can your confirm this?
-
- Boeing is looking at the possibility of the airplane in the future,
but it still has to meet the three basic concerns.
-
- 1. Is the airplane OK for the environment? Airplane noise, emissions
and other kinds of characteristics have to be acceptable.
-
- 2. We need to know whether we can make a good airplane that will fly
and last for a long time, have a good reliability and be a technically-acceptable
aircraft.
-
- 3. The next significant requirement is determining that the plane has
a proper economics? Even if the airplane is environmentally OK and performs
well, the issue is, can it be designed and built at a low enough cost and
with a low enough fuel burn rate so that airlines can make a profit? We
have to look at the passengers as being money. They pay the airlines for
travel, the airlines make a profit, and the manufacturer has to be able
to sell the airplane to make a profit. Otherwise the system doesn't work.
-
- We are still looking at whether we know all the ways to make an airplane
that will do all three. The first-generation supersonic airplanes were
fast, but they made a lot of noise at take-off and were not always accepted
by communities. So, good supersonic aircraft were built in the past that
still work, but they had an environmental problem. Plus, passengers either
have to pay a very-very high price for tickets or no one makes money in
between.
-
- The future says - Can I make an airplane so good that passengers only
pay close to the standard ticket price, but fly twice faster?
-
- Because of high speed, theoretically a supersonic plane can produce
twice as many flights in the same time, so if it were a money-generating
motor - twice the speed, twice the money. Geting more flights, even though
it may burn more fuel, a supersonic transport works hard, goes faster,
and the economics work out. We think the people will value speed, especially
in going long distances in a fast time.
-
- We are interested in understanding the second-generation supersonic
transport, which is called the SST-2. To know whether it works we still
have a lot of work to do. We can build the airplane today, but it may not
be either good economically or good for the environment. So it is a big
challenge.
-
- One more challenge in doing this is to understand how well we can predict
the future economics of our newly-designed airplanes by connecting the
predicted future to the realities of real airplane experience.
-
- The Tu-144LL flying laboratory is a useful project because we can gather
real data from an operating aircraft. We are not trying to redesign the
airplane, but this data will provide us with a way to calibrate our future
techniques. Some day in the future, when we have to face the airlines,
the authorities or our own Board of Directors, who have the money, we'll
have to say we have the solution. To prove this, we will have to demonstrate
that our forecasts of its goodness are linked to some realities.
-
- The Tu-144 test airplane has on-board sensors to gather data that we
can then use to calibrate methods for the SST-2. It is a unique opportunity
for us, because other airplanes that can fly supersonically - other than
the Concorde - are either fighters or in some other use. And in that other
use, they have engines that are out by the wing or have some other characteristics
that might affect the quality of the data for supersonic
- transport applications. The Tu-144 is aerodynamically clean, with engines
in back allowing us to get a good data base.
-
- U.S. vice president Al Gore and Mister Chernomyrdin made an arrangement
for joint activities between our two countries, and this project was considered
an excellent activity. We are long way from gathering the results for our
part of the test program. That test program will require more flights,
to get more information than just required for us. We keep using the term,
"get the data!" Just "get the data," so we will have
the right facts. The program "to get the data" can be made more
efficient and that efficiency is coming along in this test program.
-
- So, we launched this business and then said "Let's go talk to
Tupolev about their other experiences to see what else we can learn."
We are having some discussions about whether there should be other projects
beyond the flying laboratory. Today, I can only say that we made a list
and our people visited Tupolev in April. We are evaluating which possible
programs on which to embark, such as the landing gear of the airplane,
some structural information, titanium applications, and other things that
we would be
- interested in to make a good airplane. Those are in process. We have
not made a definite agreement on the next steps, but we are interested
in joint activities with Tupolev.
-
- Q. Can canards be present on the future
supersonic aircraft? Are you considering canards?
-
- Yes, we are looking at canards - we've started studies on that issue.
Our baseline airplane, however, does not have canards at this point. we
have had some other studies on canards. We have not made a final decision,
but we are looking.
-
- Q. Tupolev people told me that from
Mach 2.0 and 2.4, the difference in aerodynamics is great. Is it really
necessary for the SST-2 to have Mach 2.4?
-
- If we go a little faster and can still make the airplane work well,
we can get that twice turnaround we talked about, more utilization out
of the airplane. A little more speed would give us two trips from the west
coast of the U.S. to Tokyo in one day. Speed is important to us and the
price for that extra speed is temperature on the airplane from air friction.
So we're trying to see whether we can make a good airplane for different
speeds, and right now it looks possible but it will take some new technologies.
We are
- looking anywhere from Mach 2.0 to 2.4 for the final solution, but we
have not yet made a final decision.
-
- Q. Will you ask Tupolev to make faster
flights than envisioned in the flight-test program?
-
- No, for safety reasons we have asked them to stay with the normal speed
for that aircraft, so that we do not have to do extra flying to verify
it is OK. I am sure the plane will go faster if it proves safe. Safety
in test programs is obviously one of our top concerns.
-
- Q. Are you looking at any design features
that would reduce the sonic boom effect?
-
- We've done some studies on sonic booms. The kind of design that makes
a very-very low sonic boom tends to be very long, like an arrow. That,
however, may be prove economically unfeasible. So, we have decided that
it would be difficult to make the sonic boom so low that it would not bother
people. The economics of this plane is based on flying over water and not
flying supersonic over land. So we are going to stay subsonic over land.
-
- Q. Will there be any follow-on programs
involving the Tu-144LL?
-
- We do not know that yet. We've talked about it, but we're going to
complete the current program first and get through that. I say, "Get
the data and be successful, and then we'll talk."
-
- Q. Can Tupolev be involved in some
design work on the SST-2?
-
- I am sure if they show their viability we will have a place for them
in the future.
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